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Thermodynamic and Kinetic Products
Last updated: October 24th, 2022 |
Thermodynamic vs Kinetic Products In Purchasing Decisions (And Addition To Dienes)
A post about getting what you pay for, and how that translates to “kinetic control” and “thermodynamic control” in the addition of HCl to butadiene.
Table of Contents
- An Analogy: Spending More For Quality Tools, vs. Buying Cheap Crappy Tools That Break And Constantly Need To Be Replaced
- Kinetic Versus Thermodynamic Control In Addition Of Acid To Dienes
- The Reaction Coordinate Diagram For 1,2- and 1,4- Addition Of HCl To Butadiene
- Notes
1. An Analogy: Spending More For Quality Tools, vs. Buying Cheap Crappy Tools That Break And Constantly Need To Be Replaced
First, an explanation. My dad died. So things at MOC have basically been on hold for a few weeks. Life is now returning to normal.
The following discussion has nothing to do with the above, other than the fact that my dad’s best friend wryly observed of him: “When he opened his wallet, moths flew out”. I suppose I share this trait with regard to a lot of things. But I do not scrimp on can openers. This is why.
About 10 years ago when I was living in Montreal I was very poor, and outfitted my kitchen with items available from the dollar store. Including a can opener I paid exactly $1.14 for (in Canada, they hit you hard with sales tax).
After taking this small financial hit, life was somewhat better. I could now eat canned Ravioli. However this state of affairs did not last long.
Within the next week my $1.14 can opener had opened (poorly!) about three or four cans before flying apart while trying to pry open an 800 mL can of Bravo spaghetti sauce. So I was back to where I started: with no working can opener.
This time around I decided I wasn’t going to screw around, so I went to the local Canadian Tire and pulled out $6.99 . It was more painful to do this, but the can opener I received was of superior quality. And it did not fail me in the subsequent years that passed (although it did get a tad rusty).
So if we compare these two situations we get this:
Now what does this have to do with chemistry?
2. Kinetic vs Thermodynamic Products In Addition Of Acid To Dienes
Well, it resembles a situation that occurs in the addition of strong acids (like hydrochloric acid, HCl) to certain dienes such as butadiene. Two products are possible: the 1,2-product and the 1,4-product.
Three notes:
- With butadiene, the addition of HCl leads to a resonance-stabilized carbocation. Note that the resonance form on the top bears the positive charge on the more substituted carbon, and will therefore have a higher contribution to the hybrid than the resonance form on the bottom, where the positive charge is borne by a primary carbon.
- In the attack of Cl– to the resonance stabilized carbocation, there are two possible sites of attack. In the transition state for attack at the carbon labelled C-2 [top] note that there is a partial double bond between C-3 and C-4, and that the positive charge is localized on C-2. In the transition state for attack at the carbon labelled C-4 [bottom] note that the partial double bond is between C-2 and C-3 and that positive charge is localized on C-4. The top transition state will be lower in energy because in it, positive charge is localized on the most substituted carbon.
- Now look at the final products. The product of the top transition state [1,2 addition] has a mono substituted alkene (one carbon substituent) while the bottom transition state [1,4 addition] leads to a disubstituted alkene. Since alkene stability increases with the number of carbon substituents, the bottom product will be more thermodynamically stable.
In short, the kinetic product (1,2 in this case) is easier to form, but the thermodynamic product (1,4) is more stable.
3. The Reaction Coordinate Diagram For 1,2- and 1,4- Addition Of HCl To Butadiene
The reaction coordinate diagram looks like this.
Each reaction begins with diene A, and then progresses through a transition state (B) to form resonance stabilized carbocation C. , which undergo attack through transition states D to give final products E.
The height of each step in the process is related to its overall energy.
- When temperature is low, there is enough energy to form the 1,2-product – and that’s it. The product ratio is determined by the reaction rate (i.e. the height of the transition state D). Such a reaction is said to be under kinetic control.
- When temperature is high, there is enough energy to form both the 1,2- and the 1,4-products. Furthermore, the reaction to form products is reversible (i.e. there is enough energy to go from E → D and thence back to C. In this case the ratio of products is determined by the relative thermodynamic stabilities (i.e. the height of E). Such a reaction is said to be under thermodynamic control.
So it’s a little bit like buying can openers. There’s a lower barrier for buying the cheapest one, but the more expensive one is often the more stable product overall.
As Benjamin Graham said, “Price is what you pay: value is what you get. ”
Notes
Related Articles
Note 1. The can opener analogy doesn’t go into the “reversibility” part of things. However if you had a large population of people who had to make the identical decision, the population of people with deluxe/crappy can openers should likewise segment according to cost and reliability as a function of available resources. Note that if the product is too stable, nobody ever buys a replacement and the company goes out of business. That’s where planned obsolescence comes in.
Note 2. Not all additions to dienes follow this pattern. It is important to be able to evaluate the relative carbocation stabilities and alkene substitution patterns independently for each given diene. Don’t automatically assume that the “1,4” product is always the most stable (try cyclopentadiene, for instance). For a good time, also try 2,5-dimethyl-2, 4 hexadiene.
Note 3. When you buy an item from the dollar store with moving parts, caveat emptor.
00 General Chemistry Review
01 Bonding, Structure, and Resonance
- How Do We Know Methane (CH4) Is Tetrahedral?
- Hybrid Orbitals and Hybridization
- How To Determine Hybridization: A Shortcut
- Orbital Hybridization And Bond Strengths
- Sigma bonds come in six varieties: Pi bonds come in one
- A Key Skill: How to Calculate Formal Charge
- The Four Intermolecular Forces and How They Affect Boiling Points
- 3 Trends That Affect Boiling Points
- How To Use Electronegativity To Determine Electron Density (and why NOT to trust formal charge)
- Introduction to Resonance
- How To Use Curved Arrows To Interchange Resonance Forms
- Evaluating Resonance Forms (1) - The Rule of Least Charges
- How To Find The Best Resonance Structure By Applying Electronegativity
- Evaluating Resonance Structures With Negative Charges
- Evaluating Resonance Structures With Positive Charge
- Exploring Resonance: Pi-Donation
- Exploring Resonance: Pi-acceptors
- In Summary: Evaluating Resonance Structures
- Drawing Resonance Structures: 3 Common Mistakes To Avoid
- How to apply electronegativity and resonance to understand reactivity
- Bond Hybridization Practice
- Structure and Bonding Practice Quizzes
- Resonance Structures Practice
02 Acid Base Reactions
- Introduction to Acid-Base Reactions
- Acid Base Reactions In Organic Chemistry
- The Stronger The Acid, The Weaker The Conjugate Base
- Walkthrough of Acid-Base Reactions (3) - Acidity Trends
- Five Key Factors That Influence Acidity
- Acid-Base Reactions: Introducing Ka and pKa
- How to Use a pKa Table
- The pKa Table Is Your Friend
- A Handy Rule of Thumb for Acid-Base Reactions
- Acid Base Reactions Are Fast
- pKa Values Span 60 Orders Of Magnitude
- How Protonation and Deprotonation Affect Reactivity
- Acid Base Practice Problems
03 Alkanes and Nomenclature
- Meet the (Most Important) Functional Groups
- Condensed Formulas: Deciphering What the Brackets Mean
- Hidden Hydrogens, Hidden Lone Pairs, Hidden Counterions
- Don't Be Futyl, Learn The Butyls
- Primary, Secondary, Tertiary, Quaternary In Organic Chemistry
- Branching, and Its Affect On Melting and Boiling Points
- The Many, Many Ways of Drawing Butane
- Wedge And Dash Convention For Tetrahedral Carbon
- Common Mistakes in Organic Chemistry: Pentavalent Carbon
- Table of Functional Group Priorities for Nomenclature
- Summary Sheet - Alkane Nomenclature
- Organic Chemistry IUPAC Nomenclature Demystified With A Simple Puzzle Piece Approach
- Boiling Point Quizzes
- Organic Chemistry Nomenclature Quizzes
04 Conformations and Cycloalkanes
- Staggered vs Eclipsed Conformations of Ethane
- Conformational Isomers of Propane
- Newman Projection of Butane (and Gauche Conformation)
- Introduction to Cycloalkanes
- Geometric Isomers In Small Rings: Cis And Trans Cycloalkanes
- Calculation of Ring Strain In Cycloalkanes
- Cycloalkanes - Ring Strain In Cyclopropane And Cyclobutane
- Cyclohexane Conformations
- Cyclohexane Chair Conformation: An Aerial Tour
- How To Draw The Cyclohexane Chair Conformation
- The Cyclohexane Chair Flip
- The Cyclohexane Chair Flip - Energy Diagram
- Substituted Cyclohexanes - Axial vs Equatorial
- Ranking The Bulkiness Of Substituents On Cyclohexanes: "A-Values"
- Cyclohexane Chair Conformation Stability: Which One Is Lower Energy?
- Fused Rings - Cis-Decalin and Trans-Decalin
- Naming Bicyclic Compounds - Fused, Bridged, and Spiro
- Bredt's Rule (And Summary of Cycloalkanes)
- Newman Projection Practice
- Cycloalkanes Practice Problems
05 A Primer On Organic Reactions
- The Most Important Question To Ask When Learning a New Reaction
- Learning New Reactions: How Do The Electrons Move?
- The Third Most Important Question to Ask When Learning A New Reaction
- 7 Factors that stabilize negative charge in organic chemistry
- 7 Factors That Stabilize Positive Charge in Organic Chemistry
- Nucleophiles and Electrophiles
- Curved Arrows (for reactions)
- Curved Arrows (2): Initial Tails and Final Heads
- Nucleophilicity vs. Basicity
- The Three Classes of Nucleophiles
- What Makes A Good Nucleophile?
- What makes a good leaving group?
- 3 Factors That Stabilize Carbocations
- Equilibrium and Energy Relationships
- What's a Transition State?
- Hammond's Postulate
- Learning Organic Chemistry Reactions: A Checklist (PDF)
- Introduction to Free Radical Substitution Reactions
- Introduction to Oxidative Cleavage Reactions
06 Free Radical Reactions
- Bond Dissociation Energies = Homolytic Cleavage
- Free Radical Reactions
- 3 Factors That Stabilize Free Radicals
- What Factors Destabilize Free Radicals?
- Bond Strengths And Radical Stability
- Free Radical Initiation: Why Is "Light" Or "Heat" Required?
- Initiation, Propagation, Termination
- Monochlorination Products Of Propane, Pentane, And Other Alkanes
- Selectivity In Free Radical Reactions
- Selectivity in Free Radical Reactions: Bromination vs. Chlorination
- Halogenation At Tiffany's
- Allylic Bromination
- Bonus Topic: Allylic Rearrangements
- In Summary: Free Radicals
- Synthesis (2) - Reactions of Alkanes
- Free Radicals Practice Quizzes
07 Stereochemistry and Chirality
- Types of Isomers: Constitutional Isomers, Stereoisomers, Enantiomers, and Diastereomers
- How To Draw The Enantiomer Of A Chiral Molecule
- How To Draw A Bond Rotation
- Introduction to Assigning (R) and (S): The Cahn-Ingold-Prelog Rules
- Assigning Cahn-Ingold-Prelog (CIP) Priorities (2) - The Method of Dots
- Enantiomers vs Diastereomers vs The Same? Two Methods For Solving Problems
- Assigning R/S To Newman Projections (And Converting Newman To Line Diagrams)
- How To Determine R and S Configurations On A Fischer Projection
- The Meso Trap
- Optical Rotation, Optical Activity, and Specific Rotation
- Optical Purity and Enantiomeric Excess
- What's a Racemic Mixture?
- Chiral Allenes And Chiral Axes
- Stereochemistry Practice Problems and Quizzes
08 Substitution Reactions
- Nucleophilic Substitution Reactions - Introduction
- Two Types of Nucleophilic Substitution Reactions
- The SN2 Mechanism
- Why the SN2 Reaction Is Powerful
- The SN1 Mechanism
- The Conjugate Acid Is A Better Leaving Group
- Comparing the SN1 and SN2 Reactions
- Polar Protic? Polar Aprotic? Nonpolar? All About Solvents
- Steric Hindrance is Like a Fat Goalie
- Common Blind Spot: Intramolecular Reactions
- Substitution Practice - SN1
- Substitution Practice - SN2
09 Elimination Reactions
- Elimination Reactions (1): Introduction And The Key Pattern
- Elimination Reactions (2): The Zaitsev Rule
- Elimination Reactions Are Favored By Heat
- Two Elimination Reaction Patterns
- The E1 Reaction
- The E2 Mechanism
- E1 vs E2: Comparing the E1 and E2 Reactions
- Antiperiplanar Relationships: The E2 Reaction and Cyclohexane Rings
- Bulky Bases in Elimination Reactions
- Comparing the E1 vs SN1 Reactions
- Elimination (E1) Reactions With Rearrangements
- E1cB - Elimination (Unimolecular) Conjugate Base
- Elimination (E1) Practice Problems And Solutions
- Elimination (E2) Practice Problems and Solutions
10 Rearrangements
11 SN1/SN2/E1/E2 Decision
- Identifying Where Substitution and Elimination Reactions Happen
- Deciding SN1/SN2/E1/E2 (1) - The Substrate
- Deciding SN1/SN2/E1/E2 (2) - The Nucleophile/Base
- SN1 vs E1 and SN2 vs E2 : The Temperature
- Deciding SN1/SN2/E1/E2 - The Solvent
- Wrapup: The Key Factors For Determining SN1/SN2/E1/E2
- Alkyl Halide Reaction Map And Summary
- SN1 SN2 E1 E2 Practice Problems
12 Alkene Reactions
- E and Z Notation For Alkenes (+ Cis/Trans)
- Alkene Stability
- Alkene Addition Reactions: "Regioselectivity" and "Stereoselectivity" (Syn/Anti)
- Stereoselective and Stereospecific Reactions
- Hydrohalogenation of Alkenes and Markovnikov's Rule
- Hydration of Alkenes With Aqueous Acid
- Rearrangements in Alkene Addition Reactions
- Halogenation of Alkenes and Halohydrin Formation
- Oxymercuration Demercuration of Alkenes
- Hydroboration Oxidation of Alkenes
- m-CPBA (meta-chloroperoxybenzoic acid)
- OsO4 (Osmium Tetroxide) for Dihydroxylation of Alkenes
- Palladium on Carbon (Pd/C) for Catalytic Hydrogenation of Alkenes
- Cyclopropanation of Alkenes
- A Fourth Alkene Addition Pattern - Free Radical Addition
- Alkene Reactions: Ozonolysis
- Summary: Three Key Families Of Alkene Reaction Mechanisms
- Synthesis (4) - Alkene Reaction Map, Including Alkyl Halide Reactions
- Alkene Reactions Practice Problems
13 Alkyne Reactions
- Acetylides from Alkynes, And Substitution Reactions of Acetylides
- Partial Reduction of Alkynes With Lindlar's Catalyst
- Partial Reduction of Alkynes With Na/NH3 To Obtain Trans Alkenes
- Alkyne Hydroboration With "R2BH"
- Hydration and Oxymercuration of Alkynes
- Hydrohalogenation of Alkynes
- Alkyne Halogenation: Bromination, Chlorination, and Iodination of Alkynes
- Alkyne Reactions - The "Concerted" Pathway
- Alkenes To Alkynes Via Halogenation And Elimination Reactions
- Alkynes Are A Blank Canvas
- Synthesis (5) - Reactions of Alkynes
- Alkyne Reactions Practice Problems With Answers
14 Alcohols, Epoxides and Ethers
- Alcohols - Nomenclature and Properties
- Alcohols Can Act As Acids Or Bases (And Why It Matters)
- Alcohols - Acidity and Basicity
- The Williamson Ether Synthesis
- Ethers From Alkenes, Tertiary Alkyl Halides and Alkoxymercuration
- Alcohols To Ethers via Acid Catalysis
- Cleavage Of Ethers With Acid
- Epoxides - The Outlier Of The Ether Family
- Opening of Epoxides With Acid
- Epoxide Ring Opening With Base
- Making Alkyl Halides From Alcohols
- Tosylates And Mesylates
- PBr3 and SOCl2
- Elimination Reactions of Alcohols
- Elimination of Alcohols To Alkenes With POCl3
- Alcohol Oxidation: "Strong" and "Weak" Oxidants
- Demystifying The Mechanisms of Alcohol Oxidations
- Protecting Groups For Alcohols
- Thiols And Thioethers
- Calculating the oxidation state of a carbon
- Oxidation and Reduction in Organic Chemistry
- Oxidation Ladders
- SOCl2 Mechanism For Alcohols To Alkyl Halides: SN2 versus SNi
- Alcohol Reactions Roadmap (PDF)
- Alcohol Reaction Practice Problems
- Epoxide Reaction Quizzes
- Oxidation and Reduction Practice Quizzes
15 Organometallics
- What's An Organometallic?
- Formation of Grignard and Organolithium Reagents
- Organometallics Are Strong Bases
- Reactions of Grignard Reagents
- Protecting Groups In Grignard Reactions
- Synthesis Problems Involving Grignard Reagents
- Grignard Reactions And Synthesis (2)
- Organocuprates (Gilman Reagents): How They're Made
- Gilman Reagents (Organocuprates): What They're Used For
- The Heck, Suzuki, and Olefin Metathesis Reactions (And Why They Don't Belong In Most Introductory Organic Chemistry Courses)
- Reaction Map: Reactions of Organometallics
- Grignard Practice Problems
16 Spectroscopy
- Degrees of Unsaturation (or IHD, Index of Hydrogen Deficiency)
- Conjugation And Color (+ How Bleach Works)
- Introduction To UV-Vis Spectroscopy
- UV-Vis Spectroscopy: Absorbance of Carbonyls
- UV-Vis Spectroscopy: Practice Questions
- Bond Vibrations, Infrared Spectroscopy, and the "Ball and Spring" Model
- Infrared Spectroscopy: A Quick Primer On Interpreting Spectra
- IR Spectroscopy: 4 Practice Problems
- 1H NMR: How Many Signals?
- Homotopic, Enantiotopic, Diastereotopic
- Diastereotopic Protons in 1H NMR Spectroscopy: Examples
- C13 NMR - How Many Signals
- Liquid Gold: Pheromones In Doe Urine
- Natural Product Isolation (1) - Extraction
- Natural Product Isolation (2) - Purification Techniques, An Overview
- Structure Determination Case Study: Deer Tarsal Gland Pheromone
17 Dienes and MO Theory
- What To Expect In Organic Chemistry 2
- Are these molecules conjugated?
- Conjugation And Resonance In Organic Chemistry
- Bonding And Antibonding Pi Orbitals
- Molecular Orbitals of The Allyl Cation, Allyl Radical, and Allyl Anion
- Pi Molecular Orbitals of Butadiene
- Reactions of Dienes: 1,2 and 1,4 Addition
- Thermodynamic and Kinetic Products
- More On 1,2 and 1,4 Additions To Dienes
- s-cis and s-trans
- The Diels-Alder Reaction
- Cyclic Dienes and Dienophiles in the Diels-Alder Reaction
- Stereochemistry of the Diels-Alder Reaction
- Exo vs Endo Products In The Diels Alder: How To Tell Them Apart
- HOMO and LUMO In the Diels Alder Reaction
- Why Are Endo vs Exo Products Favored in the Diels-Alder Reaction?
- Diels-Alder Reaction: Kinetic and Thermodynamic Control
- The Retro Diels-Alder Reaction
- The Intramolecular Diels Alder Reaction
- Regiochemistry In The Diels-Alder Reaction
- The Cope and Claisen Rearrangements
- Electrocyclic Reactions
- Electrocyclic Ring Opening And Closure (2) - Six (or Eight) Pi Electrons
- Diels Alder Practice Problems
- Molecular Orbital Theory Practice
18 Aromaticity
- Introduction To Aromaticity
- Rules For Aromaticity
- Huckel's Rule: What Does 4n+2 Mean?
- Aromatic, Non-Aromatic, or Antiaromatic? Some Practice Problems
- Antiaromatic Compounds and Antiaromaticity
- The Pi Molecular Orbitals of Benzene
- The Pi Molecular Orbitals of Cyclobutadiene
- Frost Circles
- Aromaticity Practice Quizzes
19 Reactions of Aromatic Molecules
- Electrophilic Aromatic Substitution: Introduction
- Activating and Deactivating Groups In Electrophilic Aromatic Substitution
- Electrophilic Aromatic Substitution - The Mechanism
- Ortho-, Para- and Meta- Directors in Electrophilic Aromatic Substitution
- Understanding Ortho, Para, and Meta Directors
- Why are halogens ortho- para- directors?
- Disubstituted Benzenes: The Strongest Electron-Donor "Wins"
- Electrophilic Aromatic Substitutions (1) - Halogenation of Benzene
- Electrophilic Aromatic Substitutions (2) - Nitration and Sulfonation
- EAS Reactions (3) - Friedel-Crafts Acylation and Friedel-Crafts Alkylation
- Intramolecular Friedel-Crafts Reactions
- Nucleophilic Aromatic Substitution (NAS)
- Nucleophilic Aromatic Substitution (2) - The Benzyne Mechanism
- Reactions on the "Benzylic" Carbon: Bromination And Oxidation
- The Wolff-Kishner, Clemmensen, And Other Carbonyl Reductions
- More Reactions on the Aromatic Sidechain: Reduction of Nitro Groups and the Baeyer Villiger
- Aromatic Synthesis (1) - "Order Of Operations"
- Synthesis of Benzene Derivatives (2) - Polarity Reversal
- Aromatic Synthesis (3) - Sulfonyl Blocking Groups
- Birch Reduction
- Synthesis (7): Reaction Map of Benzene and Related Aromatic Compounds
- Aromatic Reactions and Synthesis Practice
- Electrophilic Aromatic Substitution Practice Problems
20 Aldehydes and Ketones
- What's The Alpha Carbon In Carbonyl Compounds?
- Nucleophilic Addition To Carbonyls
- Aldehydes and Ketones: 14 Reactions With The Same Mechanism
- Sodium Borohydride (NaBH4) Reduction of Aldehydes and Ketones
- Grignard Reagents For Addition To Aldehydes and Ketones
- Wittig Reaction
- Hydrates, Hemiacetals, and Acetals
- Imines - Properties, Formation, Reactions, and Mechanisms
- All About Enamines
- Breaking Down Carbonyl Reaction Mechanisms: Reactions of Anionic Nucleophiles (Part 2)
- Aldehydes Ketones Reaction Practice
21 Carboxylic Acid Derivatives
- Nucleophilic Acyl Substitution (With Negatively Charged Nucleophiles)
- Addition-Elimination Mechanisms With Neutral Nucleophiles (Including Acid Catalysis)
- Basic Hydrolysis of Esters - Saponification
- Transesterification
- Proton Transfer
- Fischer Esterification - Carboxylic Acid to Ester Under Acidic Conditions
- Lithium Aluminum Hydride (LiAlH4) For Reduction of Carboxylic Acid Derivatives
- LiAlH[Ot-Bu]3 For The Reduction of Acid Halides To Aldehydes
- Di-isobutyl Aluminum Hydride (DIBAL) For The Partial Reduction of Esters and Nitriles
- Amide Hydrolysis
- Thionyl Chloride (SOCl2)
- Diazomethane (CH2N2)
- Carbonyl Chemistry: Learn Six Mechanisms For the Price Of One
- Making Music With Mechanisms (PADPED)
- Carboxylic Acid Derivatives Practice Questions
22 Enols and Enolates
- Keto-Enol Tautomerism
- Enolates - Formation, Stability, and Simple Reactions
- Kinetic Versus Thermodynamic Enolates
- Aldol Addition and Condensation Reactions
- Reactions of Enols - Acid-Catalyzed Aldol, Halogenation, and Mannich Reactions
- Claisen Condensation and Dieckmann Condensation
- Decarboxylation
- The Malonic Ester and Acetoacetic Ester Synthesis
- The Michael Addition Reaction and Conjugate Addition
- The Robinson Annulation
- Haloform Reaction
- The Hell–Volhard–Zelinsky Reaction
- Enols and Enolates Practice Quizzes
23 Amines
- The Amide Functional Group: Properties, Synthesis, and Nomenclature
- Basicity of Amines And pKaH
- 5 Key Basicity Trends of Amines
- The Mesomeric Effect And Aromatic Amines
- Nucleophilicity of Amines
- Alkylation of Amines (Sucks!)
- Reductive Amination
- The Gabriel Synthesis
- Some Reactions of Azides
- The Hofmann Elimination
- The Hofmann and Curtius Rearrangements
- The Cope Elimination
- Protecting Groups for Amines - Carbamates
- The Strecker Synthesis of Amino Acids
- Introduction to Peptide Synthesis
- Reactions of Diazonium Salts: Sandmeyer and Related Reactions
- Amine Practice Questions
24 Carbohydrates
- D and L Notation For Sugars
- Pyranoses and Furanoses: Ring-Chain Tautomerism In Sugars
- What is Mutarotation?
- Reducing Sugars
- The Big Damn Post Of Carbohydrate-Related Chemistry Definitions
- The Haworth Projection
- Converting a Fischer Projection To A Haworth (And Vice Versa)
- Reactions of Sugars: Glycosylation and Protection
- The Ruff Degradation and Kiliani-Fischer Synthesis
- Isoelectric Points of Amino Acids (and How To Calculate Them)
- Carbohydrates Practice
- Amino Acid Quizzes
25 Fun and Miscellaneous
- A Gallery of Some Interesting Molecules From Nature
- Screw Organic Chemistry, I'm Just Going To Write About Cats
- On Cats, Part 1: Conformations and Configurations
- On Cats, Part 2: Cat Line Diagrams
- On Cats, Part 4: Enantiocats
- On Cats, Part 6: Stereocenters
- Organic Chemistry Is Shit
- The Organic Chemistry Behind "The Pill"
- Maybe they should call them, "Formal Wins" ?
- Why Do Organic Chemists Use Kilocalories?
- The Principle of Least Effort
- Organic Chemistry GIFS - Resonance Forms
- Reproducibility In Organic Chemistry
- What Holds The Nucleus Together?
- How Reactions Are Like Music
- Organic Chemistry and the New MCAT
26 Organic Chemistry Tips and Tricks
- Common Mistakes: Formal Charges Can Mislead
- Partial Charges Give Clues About Electron Flow
- Draw The Ugly Version First
- Organic Chemistry Study Tips: Learn the Trends
- The 8 Types of Arrows In Organic Chemistry, Explained
- Top 10 Skills To Master Before An Organic Chemistry 2 Final
- Common Mistakes with Carbonyls: Carboxylic Acids... Are Acids!
- Planning Organic Synthesis With "Reaction Maps"
- Alkene Addition Pattern #1: The "Carbocation Pathway"
- Alkene Addition Pattern #2: The "Three-Membered Ring" Pathway
- Alkene Addition Pattern #3: The "Concerted" Pathway
- Number Your Carbons!
- The 4 Major Classes of Reactions in Org 1
- How (and why) electrons flow
- Grossman's Rule
- Three Exam Tips
- A 3-Step Method For Thinking Through Synthesis Problems
- Putting It Together
- Putting Diels-Alder Products in Perspective
- The Ups and Downs of Cyclohexanes
- The Most Annoying Exceptions in Org 1 (Part 1)
- The Most Annoying Exceptions in Org 1 (Part 2)
- The Marriage May Be Bad, But the Divorce Still Costs Money
- 9 Nomenclature Conventions To Know
- Nucleophile attacks Electrophile
27 Case Studies of Successful O-Chem Students
- Success Stories: How Corina Got The The "Hard" Professor - And Got An A+ Anyway
- How Helena Aced Organic Chemistry
- From a "Drop" To B+ in Org 2 – How A Hard Working Student Turned It Around
- How Serge Aced Organic Chemistry
- Success Stories: How Zach Aced Organic Chemistry 1
- Success Stories: How Kari Went From C– to B+
- How Esther Bounced Back From a "C" To Get A's In Organic Chemistry 1 And 2
- How Tyrell Got The Highest Grade In Her Organic Chemistry Course
- This Is Why Students Use Flashcards
- Success Stories: How Stu Aced Organic Chemistry
- How John Pulled Up His Organic Chemistry Exam Grades
- Success Stories: How Nathan Aced Organic Chemistry (Without It Taking Over His Life)
- How Chris Aced Org 1 and Org 2
- Interview: How Jay Got an A+ In Organic Chemistry
- How to Do Well in Organic Chemistry: One Student's Advice
- "America's Top TA" Shares His Secrets For Teaching O-Chem
- "Organic Chemistry Is Like..." - A Few Metaphors
- How To Do Well In Organic Chemistry: Advice From A Tutor
- Guest post: "I went from being afraid of tests to actually looking forward to them".
IDK if you check these but MOC carried me through Orgo
I am so happy to hear that. Thanks for stopping by and letting me know! – James
What to do with the temperature? I mean what range of temperature should be considered high and what as low.
Just asking coz 40℃ sounds as low temperature but it is going with thermodynamically controlled conditions
It depends on the reaction. If you’re talking about addition of HBr to dienes, which is normally the case for these kinds of discussion, then 40 degrees celsius is on the high side.
Please tell me where are the answers to the three questions in the post on reactions of dienes:1,2 and 1,4 addition?
Dear James,
Is the activation energy during the formation of a thermodynamic product always greater than that of a kinetic product, and is a thermodynamic product always more stable than the kinetic product?
Basically, can I ever find such a thing as a cheap can opener that’ll last?
Hi, James
Thanks for the awesome analogy to your can opener incident I now understand the difference between kinetic and thermodynamic control. My next question is; besides for reaction reversability, is there a way to predict whether a specific reaction will be under thermodynamic or kinetic control? Or is reversibility the main determinant?
My question arises because on introduction of the diene reactions in class some people knew immediately whether the reaction was underthermodynamic vs kinetic control without information of the major product and so I want to know how they did it so i can too.
How to know if a reaction will be under kinetic or thermodynamic control? As you alluded to, reversibility is the key criterion.
Without reversibility, there is no thermodynamic control.
There’s no hard-and-fast temperature I can cite to you, but if you see “reflux”, “heat”, or the “delta” symbol, that’s a clue that it’s probably be under thermodynamic control.
The explanation that one carbocation is more stable than the other is misleading here. The two carbocations are resonance structures of each other – that means they are the same carbocation. Being the same species, they form at the same rate. If you used an unsymmetrical diene, say 1,3-pentadiene, then there would be two different carbocations that are not resonance structures, and the more stable carbocation would be favored, with the proton adding at carbon 1 forming carbcation with two secondary allylic resonance structures, rather than adding at carbon 4 to give the carbocation with one primary allylic and one secondary allylic resonance structure.
The more stable carbocation can then go on to give both a 1,2- and a 1,4 product, but both products are formed from the same carbocation. The 1,2-product being the kinetic product is better explained in terms of a proximity effect, and the 1,4-product being more substituted and therefor more stable.
hallelujah ! resonance structures are not different molecules.
Thanks for the extra push, I do need to correct this.
Fixed to reflect this. Thanks for the correction Pete.
Confused explanation… U gave 2 reasons for stability, both are confusing.
Although carbocation stability increases with substitution, isn’t a substituted allylic carbocation (the one formed in 1,2 addition) the most stable kind, even though it isn’t tertiary? Along the same lines, is an allyl carbocation more stable than a secondary carbocation even though it’s on a terminal carbon? Thanks!
The short answer is yes.
The long answer is: there are two factors at work here: increasing substitution, and resonance.
In order to compare the relative effects of both factors, it’s necessary to examine experimental data.
One example is to look at the rate of ionization of different alkyl and allyl halides, which is found in March’s Advanced Organic Chemistry – exact page reference escaping me at the moment, because my book is elsewhere.
That data indicates that primary allylic carbocations are considerably more stable than secondary carbocations.
My prayers go to your father
Thank you.
Can’t wait to see how you manage to get the ham and cheese chroissants out…hahahaha
I’ll figure out a way!
So sorry for your loss.
Thanks Adam.